The last Zoom that was on Eschatology: Here not There I found quite encouraging and illustrated that what we think on such supposed ‘academic’ questions really affects the practical… indeed the questions are not so academic, this one was simple ‘is it all about us going there, or is it about there coming here?’ The problem is the subject has been hijacked and we have been taught what the answer is, and by taught I suppose I mean brainwashed with no small amount of money and resources behind the onslaught on our thinking.
After the Zoom I was sent this page to look at (not from someone thinking the page was good but illustrating the ‘nuttiness’ of so much that goes on). It might be extreme and on the edge but here it is:
Check it out if you have time. Basically through a series of indexes (currently numbered at 45) it becomes clear how close we are to the rapture. More ‘bad things’ the higher the score, so examples are floods, drug abuse, wild weather, Satanism, globalism. As each one gets worse that score goes up and the aggregate score of the 45 indices give us a total – so as of right now we are at a score of 181 and we are informed that a score above 160 indicates we are to ‘fasten our seat belts’. The rapture was actually closer in 2016 with a score of 189. Maybe it was so secret that even the creators of the system that gives us the inside information missed the sound of the trumpet and the shout of the archangel! (Not going to be so secret then? Other than Paul is making NO reference to said event in passage quoted.)
The craziness of all this is we should actually be rejoicing when disasters, ‘natural’ or ‘moral’ take place for they are hastening the time of our escape. A perversion of eschatology and a total debilitater to prayer and action.
Thankfully there is such a move away from that kind of eschatology but I suspect there still is a ‘well it is all going to burn up in the end anyway’ leaning that remains. We will be OK – palace in the sky is where I am headed, and at the same time the oligarchs of the West figure out that they will be OK with their palace in some safe place, even if that safe place is somewhere in space where they have planted their flag (thank you Naomi Klein for making the connection). Meanwhile we do not take in the words of Scripture concerning the destruction of those who destroy the earth.
I have come across from many angles the four way relationship / reconciliation: Godward, otherward, selfward and planetward. Wherever we start we cannot end there. Simply being reconciled to self can end up with a perversion if we do not go beyond that to ‘love our neighbour as ourselves’ for example. And I cannot truly love God (I am reconciled to God) and there not to be a ‘before and an after’ on every other area. Reconciliation is a work in progress. And let me repeat… wherever we start we cannot end there – and yes that does have implication for soteriology, and has to, as the biblical examples of the use of the word cannot be reduced to one-dimension. It is all a process, and theologically all four aspects flow from the cross and resurrection. That is an eschatology that is deeply practical as it flows from you + me + ‘others’ (every tribe) with God present with ‘us’ in a creational context so that shalom is tangible – no more weeping, suffering, death.
A theology, for example, that quickly jumps to God gave the land to Israel so maybe this idea of moving the Palestinians out could just be OK… well maybe I jump quickly to the parallel exodus of the Philistines and that they need their land restored, and who might be in that today? (Thanks Amos for that insight. It’s a good book to read so I won’t simply give a one verse reference.) When can we get an eschatological vision (a true vision for the globe) such as Paul, a Hebrew of the Hebrews, advanced in the Torah beyond his peers… who simply said that Israel was not promised the land. I appreciate I am trampling on toes and giving little substance to back up what I am writing, but I am doing that to push back against ‘what a mess, but it is all prophesied and we will be OK’. And certainly pushing back against the ‘and if there is yet more mess we simply add it to the total score to tell us where we are’.
There is a book ‘I’m OK You’re OK’. There is a God who said ‘You’re not OK I’m not OK’. The God who followed us out of Eden is the God who is worthy to be followed.
Yes all the welcoming of doom and destruction does not feel right at all and measuring them on an index absolutely crazy as you say. Pointing to various disasters and saying loudly they are judgements etc may be true but not helpful either unless we are addressing ourselves as Christians as they may be a judgement on our profound failure to represent Christ to the world?. A lot of the world already thinks Christian’s are irrelevant at best or toxic at worst!. Doing things the same way is not going to bring down the kingdom I feel?. So needed is group of people or individuals with a real vision for rescue and unconditional love reaching out to dispossessed and the outcasts who couldn’t care less about which camp they are in in these mad culture wars but move towards Matthew 5 and the sermon on the mount! I read the Beatitudes to my 24 year old daughter last night who’s turned away from her faith and has no respect for Christian’s really to remind her exactly what Jesus said about who was blessed and what the true kingdom is comprised of! Thank you Martin for this thought provoking post.
Lack of imagination will kill us and the habitable planet. The profound loss from all of the celebration of a wrong-headed eschatology is that many people have lost any way to imagine anything else. So we are stuck. And those who are enchanted by doom and disaster, so often because they are disconnected from the suffering of other people and species, have seized the narrative and the means of communicating it.
A counter narrative is required. A new story that celebrates life, all of it, in all it’s complexities. Life that includes other people, species, and the land itself. While many, including myself have simply exited what ‘Christianity’ has to offer, there is still a need for some story to guide our lives. We reject the gloom and doom and suffering of so many as something to celebrate. But we need something to celebrate, to direct our actions, to motivate and to invest in.
If we reject a special departures lounge for all the right people, either the wealthy or those with the right beliefs, then what do we offer instead? What motivates people to invest in their local communities, food supply, health care, education etc? What motivates us to change our ways and care for the land? People want a vision to organize around. What do we imagine, especially if we are committed to staying here?
I think this guy says it better than I could about cutting USAID. He challenges the narrative and the excuses.
https://youtu.be/4X4vDreE4X4?si=qo9XjqyC2mPqW0xf
As I try to wrap my head around eschatology and academic study (I think most of the modern core eschatologies have deeper roots in Zoroastrianism than in the actual text we use to support them)…I have to ask the question:
Why would God want to take us anywhere when He claims to live inside us?
This is truly the most remarkable claim in Christianity that God now dwells IN US…it should shape everything else we think…but I don’t think we actually believe it.
The modern emphasis (and drive) to glorify the 2nd coming over the 1st seems a bit problematic to me.
God came to dwell in us, until we deal with that we probably aren’t going anywhere, and why would we need to?
Oddly enough I grew up in Pentecost which takes its name from an event that in many ways WAS the 2nd coming…and they’ve been claiming he’s coming back for a “2nd second coming” any day now for almost 100 years…
“I tell you the truth, there are some standing here who will not experience death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
It’s kind of unambiguous…
Eschatology seems to be one of the places where we get to ignore the actual text and grant ourselves a pass all the while ignoring the academic proof.
“Christ in you” is a bigger fish to fry.
Thanks Mark for the ‘bigger fish’ marker. ‘In’, ‘among’ and ‘with’ are all huge words… and a future that includes those who are ‘not alive at the coming’, the reconciliation of all things – creational reconciliation, and the totality of shalom at the four dimensions I put in the post – all of which pushes me for a parousia at a level even beyond Pentecost… after all Pentecost is also the feast of firstfruits of a final harvest.
You comment was not (as I understand it) an absolute pushback any more than this comment is on yours. Meanwhile… to enjoy and explore ‘Christ in me…’