Category: Prophetic Perspectives

Roe v Wade: all simple?

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

Roe v Wade – so many rejoicing… and personally knowing some of those who have prayed over years it must be amazing. On this site many of you will have met Michele Perry, a friend of Gayle and mine for years. We first met the end of 2011 in Cádiz when she came to stay with us, five flights later we met her in Jerez airport. In those days we had no car and so had to run to catch the train… running… I had asked Michele ‘how will we recognise you in the airport?’ She laughed, ‘I think I will be the only woman of 4’6″ with one leg in the airport’. True to her word she was, and then we ran for the train, followed by an all but 2km walk back along cobble streets in the wet.

That is a small insight into her bravery. Before coming to us, she lived in a literal war zone, pioneering mission work in South Sudan. Brave is an understatement… and other understatements are ‘sharp’ and ‘always willing to pioneer’.

She is ‘pro-life’. Please read her article in response to Roe v Wade being overturned. Here is simply one quote:

I came to see the Pro-Life Movement in the United States wasn’t about the preservation of life as I once thought. It was about preserving political power

What a complex world we live in. Michele said to me ‘I will probably get in trouble for what I have written’. Well that won’t be the last time for sure.

Why I Believe the Pro-Life Movement Isn’t Actually About Life at All
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Sight will clarify

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

There is a pattern in the earlier chapters of the book of Revelation that is about ‘hearing’ being clarified by ‘sight’. The latter chapters are sight, sight, sight… and not a few strange sights at that: apocalyptic literature in its fullness!

Here are some examples in the early chapters:

  • 1:10 I heard voice like a trumpet…
    1:12 I turned to see (saw lampstands) then came clear one standing in the midst of the lampstands
  • 4:1 heard a voice…
    4:1 come up here and I will show you… then description of sight 5:1 saw, 5:5 saw, 5:11 Looked, 6:1 saw
  • 6:1 heard leads to 6:2 looked, followed by that pattern being repeated
  • 7:4 I heard… leads to 7:9 After this I looked

And in the midst of the Rev. 5 passage, John hears a well known Scriptural image – the Lion of the Tribe of Judah… he turns and he sees a Lamb slain.

The last example is very key. Scriptural imagery that we can recite, but greatly re-interpreted. Without that re-interpretation it is not possible to ‘see’ the book of Revelation, those chapters and that sight re-shaping what was understood being so central.

At a wider level, we hear so much, we can repeat so much that we have heard, we rely on what we have heard / been taught. The hearing interprets what we see. But Revelation has a significant pattern of what we see interpreting what we have heard. This can be at a transcendent level. We receive revelation that challenges the past; or at an imminent level and what we see does not fit what we have heard.

Sight might come in an instant, or it might come in stages (John – lampstands –> one walking in the midst of the lampstands)… or it might come as we persist and refuse to let go of the dissonance between what we have heard and what we see.

Fresh sight is to break. That was one of the emphases that John Robinson had about our understanding of Scriture. (Robinson was the ‘pastor’ to the pilgrims who travelled to the Americas).

I am verily persuaded the Lord hath more truth yet to break forth out of His Holy Word.

I wrote to someone this morning after he sent me an article on Artificial Intelligence. OH my are we challenged, and what will the future hold, and what about my book Humanising the Divine?! We have also had some correspondence regarding those who are holding to the same line as the Reformers on virtually every approach (cross, predestination, election, hell etc.). They might be right (did I write that? Surely not!) but an insistence on that momentous era of the Reformation being the, more or less, end of our understanding is troublesome. We are so clearly at the end of an era… The biggest financial crisis is on us, food crises, fossil fuels, climate etc. Could we simply be at an end, or could we be at the beginning?

I don’t know how we respond to the AI direction. All accept a chip and become super-human? Resist it and find that we repeat the errors of how progress has been resisted in the past? Yes there is Babylon / Babel in there, but wonderfully we know that Babylon is never a finished work.

In it all, I have no idea how we respond… but surely there are aspects in this new time that we as believers can press into. Jesus at the centre, but maybe what he is bringing will have a surprise or three. I am thankful (yes, even for so much of the Reformation, and for the early church writers) for the past… but there is a new era here.

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Never came to pass

Now that is embarrassing

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

Getting it wrong can happen for some of the reasons I have flagged up for example, projectionism (if I were God I would say…), this is what I want to happen, prophesying from one own’s bias etc. In this post I am going to look at a final area one that I have no category for!

I owe these examples to John Goldingay in his Old Testament Theology.

Jeremiah says that Jehoiakim would die without honour, with his body dragged around and thrown outside the city gates, and then no descendent would sit on his throne (Jer. 22:18-19; 36:30). BUT… he received a propher burial and his son succeeded him (2 Kings 24:6).

I do like Jeremiah – I read a few days ago when he said ‘Ok I know you do all things well, but if I could just talk to you I do have a complaint about what you do and how you do it (my paraphrase). And Jeremiah prophesied to Zedekiah that he would not die by the sword but peacefully with people mourning for him (Jer. 34:4-5). Continue reading and Zedekiah is captured, has his eyes pulled out and then dies in prison. A fulfilment?

In Ezekiel chapters 26-28 we have the prophecy that Nebuchadnezzar (Babylon) will defeat Tyre, kill its inhabitants, plunder the wealth and bring the walls down flat. Indeed the text suggests that Tyre will disappear and never be found again. In due course Nebuchadnezzar did come against the city, but the effect was nothing like was prophesied (a few hundred years later one might be able to suggest that Alexander the Great came close to fulfilling that). What is also interesting is that it seems that there is a further word to Nebuchadnezzar along the lines of – well that did not work out but you will attack Egypt (Ezek. 29:17-20)… that one did not work out either!

OUCH!!!

I have no idea what category to put those in, and these are not some prophecies on some super powerful internet web site, but inside the covers of our Bible. Maybe there was some repentance that went on that changed things? Maybe there is far more human interaction that affects the outcome than a simple ‘God said’ factor?

Mistakes are to be avoided. Mistakes that flow from our spiritual defects are likely, or very likely if we do not approach things humbly with the only focus of expressing God’s care and love. And when all is said and done and we enter the realm of the Jeremiah’s and Ezekiel’s of the prophetic world we will have to be able to live with ‘can’t explain that… and yes it is embarrassing!’ One thing is for sure we can never close the door to being criticised.

[Footnote. A view that has become widespread (and popular in charismatic circles) that sems to originate from the work of Wayne Grudem is that the Old Testament prophets spoke the ‘very words of God’, the NT prophets did not, but the apostles did indeed speak such words does not seem to be sustainable in the light of the above non-fulfilments. I actually consider that the belief is probably more motivated to uphold a view of Scripture that is tied to a belief in inerrancy. I remember in my days from long ago sitting listening to lectures on the NT by Dr. Donald Guthrie where he sought to prove at lengths that each of the NT books were ‘apostolic’, written by, or for, or at least under the clear and direct influence of one of those original apostles. I have never understood why we try to put on the Bible what it does not seem to claim for itself. What a book we have… and I think if we let it be what it is we will be pointed to Jesus while responding to the internal invite to disagree with some of what we read. Come on, reader, do you agree with all you read there? Really?]

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Not fulfilled – not contending

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

Prophecy… prohesy in part… prophecy not inevitable… prophecy not future-telling… prophecy inhabits the world of promise.

Promises. That is the world of the bible, and of course being that I lean heavily into the ‘future is not fixed’ promise is just a wonderful category. What mght be? Oh careful you might get into the realm of imagination… yes and then I might just connect with the God who answers above what we think or imagine.

And…

Then contend for fulfilment.

Elisha was suffering from a sickness. Later he would die from it. Jehoash, the king of Israel, went down to see him. He sobbed over him. “My father!” he cried. “You are like a father to me! You are the true chariots and horsemen of Israel!”
Elisha said to Jehoash, “Get a bow and some arrows.” So he did.
“Hold the bow in your hands,” Elisha said to the king of Israel. So Jehoash took hold of the bow. Then Elisha put his hands on the king’s hands.
“Open the east window,” Elisha said. So he did. “Shoot!” Elisha said. So he shot.
“That’s the Lord’s arrow!” Elisha announced. “It means you will win the battle over Aram! You will completely destroy the men of Aram at Aphek.” (2 Kings 13:14-19).

Good word Elisha! Now Jehoash pick up the arrows and strike the ground. ‘Not enough, I will have to change the word I gave you… no longer completely’, but

But now you will win only three battles over them.

Repentance can change the outcome (Jonah); lack of persistence can change the outcome; expectations / fantasy can change the outcome / making ‘part’ the whole can change the outcome; adding the next word to the others we have received in some sort of collection can change the outcome.

I have benefitted from prophecy, am thankful for responses to prophetic words I have given… but am so aware that for many reasons we might not fully benefit from what has been said.

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I will prophesy what I want to happen

Well wishing?

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

I need this to happen in my life, and lo and behold along comes someone who confirms it with a word. That really can and does happen, but when we are not yielded and we connect with someone who prophesies from their own desires we can end up with a toxic situation. Ezekiel covers this when he talks about prophets being enticed to prophesy what we want to hear. God allows it, but then says he will truly give such people (and with a focus on the prophet) a clip round the ear (or as my mother would put it – a cloot aboot the lug).

When Sue was ill with cancer, Sharon Stone came to me and said – now be aware that you will likely receive many words… but mature prophets know that this is a time when little is said but that prayer is the place. Thankfully I did not receive many words, most words that we received are still alive today; one word was ‘Martin in your book (can’t remember which title) there is an error… This is the reason Sue is ill, re-read it prayerfully and then repent, call me and Sue will be healed!’ To say hilarious is an understatement. One error?!!!!! Give me a break. That word had no traction, maybe if they had said ‘320 errors’ I might have had to take notice.

When faced with situations that we want to change we cannot prophesy what we want to happen. The common ones are: marriages, partners, babies being born, health etc. All of these can be prophesied into but not from this is what I want to happen, so I will speak that out.

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Only a part

We prophesy in part

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

How clever we are! If that is our starting point we have a lot to learn, and that path has to lead to ‘we are not so smart’. All prophecy is in part, the whole picture is never revealed. One can have increible revelation – look at Elisha and how he knew where the opposing army would be, so much so that the king was frustrated and was told that ‘Elisha knows what is going on behind closed doors’. Yet when the woman whose son had died came to him in great distress, he told his servant to go with her as he did not have a clue what had happened! I respect that enormously, the honesty (I know nothing) and the revelation (I know what is going on in secret) are probably related.

On the receiving end of things, no word will reveal all. I value, Paul valued, and above all God values prophecy, but we must never anticipate that ‘if only we receive a word from God through prophecy’ all will be clear. By all means pray that God will speak and show the way, but s/he might show that path could be in a variety of ways; prophecy might be one such way that helps.

We weigh prophecy. Yes – of God / missed the mark is one aspect; but also weighing it. What ‘part’ does that word play; how does it fit with what else I have received. Like a recipe – 200gms of this and 300gms of that plus… We weigh the ingredients; we weight all prophecy as part of the bigger recipe.

A second aspect of ‘only a part’ is that once we prophesy into a situation it is normal that we can only speak to a part. It is not the whole story (and I am particularly thinking of words that might be for a whole situation, nation, or season). The part we have not been able to get words for should provoke us to prayer. Gayle and I have some words (not directly for us) that we read to dig into, they give insight into the situation(s) but what is not said there, what is ‘between the lines’ is left there for us to wrestle with. The prophetic might throw light on those parts but those aspects are not actually in black and white in the text. There is so much more… Prophecy can open the door to a measure of understanding but prayer and yielding to God is going to bring something deeper. It is not knowledge alone that brings change, nor revelation alone, but co-operation with God (and I could add it is not God alone who brings changes).

God speaks when s/he is also silent. The sheer sound of silence – Elijah’s experience.

I am glad prophecy is God speaking. I am glad that God speaking is more than prophecy.

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Not what I want to say

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

We all know so much, all based on what we are doing is the right thing to do, we after all are the ones who hear God and are in the centre of the will of heaven. That’s a great starting point – NOT.

It’s all very well to say ‘If I were you I would not be doing that’, or ‘no way would I feel free to do that’. If I take the illustration I used yesterday of the incumbent in the Vatican (BTW I have not had personal permission to use this as an illustration, but I don’t think he would mind) I certainly have my reservations about the position and the organisation. Do I believe Jesus intended us to have a pope when he said ‘and on this rock I will build my church’? No, I do not. Do I think Jesus intended (the perfect will of God) that Martin should do what he is doing? Of course, cos I am right, that much is obvious… or not!

Let’s start with we are all doing approximately what God intends, some approximations are closer to what God would do if s/he were us than others (and he became one of us)… but all are approximations. God speaks to US. Not to an ideal us (far too Platonic for an Incarnational, kenotic God). Hence prophecy is and always will be ‘in part’. God speaks to Martin with all his weaknesses, ideosyncracies and tendency just to do whatever he thinks anyway. So prophecy will not give me ‘the word of the Lord’ but will give me ‘the Lord’s voice to me’.

I find prophesying over people who are doing things, involved in situations that I (in all my self-righteous pontificating knowledge) would not touch with a barge pole a challenge. God does not touch things with a barge pole either, but with her/his own hands and heart. Do not, do not, ask for a king… OK you have asked for a king, bring him here and I personally will anoint the king.

The anointing, empowerment of God. So sweet, and gives me hope. The Holy Spirit might be given to those who are obedient, but that obedience is relative; it is obedience as I understand it. Let’s drop the absoluteness of ‘we are right’ and get involved in living for / with Jesus. As I wrote yesterday it might be that I don’t walk with Jesus, but given that he walks with me that is probably enough – we walk together.

To grow in the prophetic one has to learn, at times, to speak what one would rather not say. It is seeking to speak what God seeks to say to the person / situation where they are at, regardless of what I think about barge poles. So thankful that is the case. If we can’t get to that stage we will either end up arrogant (not good, there is not too much else in Scripture that ‘God opposes’) or continually questioning if God is with us (what we sow we reap… if we sow barge poles we will reap barge poles).

Generosity, encouraging, PRESENCE. Hence God speaks in part, with an overriding ‘Go for it’.

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Prophecy & inaccuracies

Self-discovery and prophecy

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

Last April I posted on inaccuracies in prophetic words and thought maybe time to revisit that. The original post is at

https://3generations.eu/posts/2021/04/inaccurate/

Before getting into some of the principles that I consider are important there is another area I am wrestling with. Gayle works inside the Authentic Lives framework and the wonderful transformation that takes place is amazing. It is essentially holding space so that there can be self-discovery (as far as I understand it). The prophetic is within it, but the foundation is self-discovery. I am, to be honest, not sure how prophetic and that holds together. The weakness of prophecy as we have seen it develop within the charismatic world is a culture of ‘I am waiting for (another) prophetic word’, and we can create a dependency culture, something I increasingly see with prophetic conferences. If it does not lead to self-discovery (which is really the ‘word of God entering’) it will prove to be ineffective. That probably is the crux of the matter, and perhaps there is no inherent clash between the prophetic and (for example) what takes place in the Authentic Lives environment. The only clash is when self-discovery is not present.

So to a couple of foundations. I usually say to people that anyone who prophesies has the easy task. They are not to be focused on getting it ‘right’. There is no fundamental requirement on them getting it right as Scripture is clear that all words spoken need to be weighed. If all words are to be weighed it is possible that they might simply be out and out wrong. The requirement is (as always) to love. If love is not present then keep quiet. If the desire is there to correct, just keep quiet.

Second do not prophesy to prove how great one is at with receiving revelation. The person receiving the word is the key, not the person delivering it. What is given needs to facilitate a deeper level of self-discovery, not a deeper level of being impressed with the one speaking – that will often result in less of a self-discovery, as part of self-discovery is about who we are in God and that s/he leads us and speaks to us in unique and personal ways.

[I had a great personal revelation a few days ago. In the context of a few of us together I saw Jesus coming to me and giving me an ordinary looking key. Others received keys also – fancy ones, gold ones, in the shape of a leaf etc… Mine, just a normal non-descript key. Others had a great interaction with Jesus. He gave me that key, shrugged his shoulders as if to say – no point saying anything to you, no point giving you any instruction as you will only go off and do what you want to do anyway. Just pondering whether it means I don’t really walk with Jesus, but very glad he walks with me… Anyway all very helpful, with a little bit of self-discovery and quite a lot of discovery about the graciousness of Jesus.]

Getting it wrong…

Although we cannot guarantee that we will get it ‘right’, we should close down avenues that will only increase the possibility of getting it ‘wrong’. One such avenue is asking ‘what would I say to this person if I were God?’ That is quite a question, and would only be effective if we knew God at that level. I think we have such a reliance on knowledge that that sort of question is not going to get us very far. (For the non-Catholics here) consider meeting someone who says ‘I am the head of a large organisation, we have unbelieveable levels of wealth, the organisation covers over certain abuses at times, we have very strong hierarchy within the organisation, and as head I obviously represent Jesus on the earth, we also tend to dress in ways that sets us apart from others… blah blah…’ Now we ask ‘If I were God what would I say…’ I think we would miss it all-together. Our knoweldge of what is right and wrong would simply mean we would get it wrong.

Don’t ask that question!!!

And my illustration about the person who sits in the Vatican will bring me to the second aspect of the prophetic… It is in part! We don’t speak the word of God as in its entirety, and I suggest that God does not speak in entirety – hence laws in the Old Testament that are major compromises. That also is a challenge. Prophecy can limit what we say… ‘my’ revelation (read for revelation, my knowledge) can go further than prophecy, cos I am so full of insight (!!!). That will be the second post.

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Interpreting…

Reading too much into it all?

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

I have a title – really what I think, interpreting my recent travel. And put beneath it a sub-title: reading too much into it. Whatever… I live my life by convictions…. correction, my level of integrity is related to living my life by my convictions, so the title is the title, and the sub-title is a possibility that I have to be open to but cannot live my life by. (My ability to waffle does seem to be pretty powerful.)

I am in the UK for 2 days. An early start yesterday to catch a flight. I had an alarm set for 4:40 but woke at 2:20. What does one do? I rolled on to one side, closed my eyes… no, that is not working… other side… no. So there it was. But in truth it had been a week more or less like that, somehow the air had been ‘thick’. It did mean I was well in time to catch my flight.

Plane left on time (Alicante to Gatwick). It landed ahead of schedule. Taxied toward the gates. The stopped… eventually the pilot coming on speaker – there is a plane occupying our gate, once it leaves we will pull in. Well, for whatever reason the other plane did not depart. Pilot – we will make our way to a new gate they have assigned us. Taxied. Stopped. Eventually pilot says – there is a problem with (and I think he said) the navigation system on the gate to bring us in; once they have fixed we will dock in a short while. Waited… they did not get it fixed!

So eventually they use the steps that are built into the plane itself and there we are now with a walk and back entry to the airport. I proceed with my one carry on bag, nothing to pick up on the luggage belt, so move as quickly as possible as I have a train to catch (on my way to a funeral – more later on that). I get to passport and there is no line. I am it, so right through.

I go to the train – only a 100 metre walk. Buy my ticket. Ah yes, the voice of the announcer. Sorry the train is delayed, we are in process of forming the train! (I presumed that this was not a ‘we have just put in an order with the manufacturer’.)

So now the train is late. Then comes the announcer. The train for Reading (my train and I am getting off at Dorking) has a platform change.

I might have got up early, I might be somewhat sleep deprived (pulling on your sympathy with that comment) but I am noticing a pattern all connected to time.

  • I wake too early…
  • … OK let me be ‘spiritual’ please… the heavens are clear and we are ahead of schedule.
  • I should have been on a train and on my way easily 20-30 minutes after landing, but it was just shy of 2 hours!
  • Cannot dock where we should – it is already occupied.
  • There are alternatives, but we cannot be guided in there.
  • We will make a back door entry.
  • I am not with excess luggage.
  • I am straight in as I have full access and permission.

Ahead of schedule but unable to dock… delays once we land… time and locations are being contested.

Moving forward. I was present for the funeral of Gerald Coates. Someone who was been the biggest influence on my life – partly because my first encounter was when I was 19 years of age and we worked together for some of the subsequent decades.

In my eulogy I recounted a vivid dream he had at the time when he was transitioning from being a postman to that of ‘full time’.

He was driving down a narrow road that was lined by trees. The road ran out, and he came to a big lawn area with beautifully cut, cared for grass. On this lawn were people together, beautifully dressed, engaged with each other; picnics and other activity going on. To his surprise in the dream he did not stop, nor get out of the car to join them but drove across the lawn, disturbed all those people, leaving two big dirty tyre tracks along the way.

The interpretation given by someone in Canterbury was based on understanding two key parts of the imagery. I see ‘people like trees’ and ‘all flesh is as grass’.

You (Gerald) have been on a narrow path shaped by people (men) who have restricted and determined where you will drive (he was Plymouth Brethren by background). But that road has ended. The most beautifully cut, and immaculate grass (humanity) is religious flesh. It has everything in place but is simply flesh. You are destined to disturb all things religious and in the process to leave behind two great huge tyre tracks…

How true that turned out to be. Those of us who knew him could tell stories of his adventures that fulfilled that dream over and over again!

Before going to the funeral I visited the ‘Hub’. An amazing community space in North Leatherhead where I lived with Sue, Ben and Judith. I was very moved while there. One of the initiators in that context showed me around. It was heavy with the presence of God, a space for the community. I felt so strongly that stories are going to be told there, with even events taking place where stories are told. Not all the stories with a ‘Jesus / God’ explicitly in them, but they will be stories about what God is doing, the God who is present everywhere.

Gerald was a story teller.

When Sue and I moved to Leatherhead 13/02/04 – 1 year and a day before she died – I stood on the end of our street to declare – if I live here I have a responsibility and faith that this street will be the healthiest street in all of Leatherhead, and by the roundabout at the end of the street I raised my hands over the street.

The Hub is by that roundabout.

Right toward the end of Sue’s life – she was by then in a hospital so not at home. I have a literal conversation, initiated by the Holy Spirit – I can still remember exactly where I was, what I was facing etc.

If I heal Sue whose story will that be?
Sue’s.
NO.
Ours as a family.
NO.
Wider family, friends… the Christian community
NO.
Whose story then?
It will be the story the community can take. It will belong to no-one but everyone can have it.

So… the Hub by that roundabout (story telling by the community)… Gerald – a storyteller… whose story will it be, it will belong to no-one but everyone can have it…

I visit the HUB then the funeral.

I ended my eulogy after telling the dream with a reference to Hebrews 11. That Gerald though dead still speaks. How? Books, videos etc… but it has to be in and through the lives where a deposit has been made. There has to be those who make two great dirty tyre marks all over the lawns that appear to be in order, but ultimately simply religious flesh. (Jesus dies in Jerusalem so we can live / die in Rome.)

Back to my travels… everything in the sky was ahead of schedule. We arrived early. I was lightly packed – one piece of hand luggage. Passport control – there was literally no-one in front of me. Lightly packed, easy travel, permission to enter… all wonderful.

But it take me all-but 2 hours to get from the plane landing to the train.

First ‘our’ gate is occupied.
Then the next gate there is problem their side and they cannot guide us in. We cannot even dock there and are finally removed down the rickety airplane steps, to make a back entry to the airport.
The train is still being formed so late:
Train being prepared so late:
Then change of platform.

A pattern – heavens clear:
Earth travel where the problems are:

Gates are occupied that stop us docking; we struggle to be guided in… I could go on…

But true story telling…

I see major key here. Religion occupies the gates, that makes for immaculate lawns… Acts 15 – although I am not convinced they got it ‘right – they did a good job, but there was a lot of contention in the gates, religious contention.

So they started by story telling. Not tradition, what should be, how do we keep the right order… Stories.
Stories leave dirty tyre marks.

Abandon the narrow path, aim for the neat lawns, get the revs up and kick up a bit of dirt. I know that in the past days something has shifted in the heavens. As I wrote at the beginning the ‘air’ has been thick for days. Something has shifted. Now we need to engage. There are planes where they should not be, they are in our gate; there are navigation systems that need sorting to guide us where we are to dock; there are trains that should have been formed already; there are platforms assigned. There is to be no more delay. Delay held in place through false wisdom, and through the times we stupidly worm our way in with our own agenda rather than simply throwing our lot in with what God is doing.

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What are you saying?

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by Martin Scott
Posted in Prophetic Perspectives

The voice is so important, not simply at an individual human level but at a corporate level.

The beast was given a mouth… (Rev. 13:5)

Two beasts, one rising from the sea and the second from the land (historically Rome across the waters and the Caesar cult worship in the locality) – a pattern that is repeated. In Creation we have heavens, water and land. The process is from heaven through the waters to the land, the water / sea taking on the symbolic representation of that ‘middle area’ that has to be tamed, the place where something can always rise up, hence the startling response to Jesus that ‘even’ the winds and waves obeyed him, leading them to say ‘what kind of human is he?’, and the final coming together of the binary of heaven and earth with that middle space disappearing with the statement that there was ‘no more sea’. The beast is given a voice… this always marks a major element in the advancement of imperial / demonic power, so there will always be the need to ask ‘who is speaking?’ to determine who the voice is representing.

Regardless of where one sits on the ‘open theology’ spectrum there seems to be a principle that certain responses are monitored to see what is in our hearts, and this is certainly true beyond the individual of movements or institutions. I am a big believer that all movements need regular (annual?) exorcisms for there is default pull which is the Babylonian pull.

Here are two thoughts I have.

A movement hits a crisis, and how they deal with it will determine the following years, and in that I am not suggesting it has to be dealt with perfectly – us acting perfectly? I don’t think so!!

Not perfectly but there is something about a dividing line that seems to me to be over ‘self-preservation’. The voice of Babylon is always that of ‘we will survive’, or in the words of scripture,

I am, and there is no one besides me;
I shall not sit as a widow
or know the loss of children (Is. 47:8).

Survival at all costs. Babylon can never go out of existence and will go on for generations to come. There will always come a time in every movement when they will face this issue. If they go down the integrity route they run the risk of defamation and even the end of their existence; so in comes the cover ups, the painting of the situation in a light (light??) that hides what has taken place. Survival is something that God grants, he alone has immortality, and gives it. Survival at all costs starts the path of self-sourced life. God does not disappear (too gracious for that), the stories continue but the real evidence of life slowly dissipates, that real evidence not being what is happening within a movement but through that movement. It is the testimonies beyond the movement that indicate the real impact.

To survive at all costs will be at all costs, costs to individuals and the individual voice. The voice of the corporation becomes mono-toned, unlike the voice of heaven, that voice being the multi-toned diverse sounds of many waters running, causing a sound that has to be leaned into in order that we can actually hear what is being said. The voice of heaven is accessible but not without a leaning into the sound. One does not have to lean to hear the voice of Babylon.

A second aspect that rises is where a movement has a centre and there is a buffer between the centre and those that ask the challenging question. That centre might be a person, or a few inner core, but the effect is the same they cannot really be accessed in order to hear and respond to the perspective that challenges behaviour or direction. Let me call it the ‘Mercury / Hermes principle. Paul and Barnabas arrived at Lystra and the people were impressed so attributed divinity to the two:

Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes, because he was the chief speaker (Acts 14:12).

The ‘boss god’ and the interpreter for the god. That interpreter in our world is there to cover the ‘big’ cheeses, to make sure they are never viewed negatively, even to the point of ‘when they said xyz they really should not be understood as saying xyz but it really means…’, or ‘it is wrong to think they are not accessible it is just that they…’ In other words the ‘Hermes / Mercury’ principle is one of interpretation so that they are not directly accessible and they can never be critiqued.

Voices. Voices that self-promote, self-preserve and keep all honest critique at bay. That voice can be tracked back to the ‘beast from the sea’ and if we do we can be sure there will also be a ‘beast rising up in our land’.

Time to calm the waters and the winds. The voice of Jesus, clean, honest, simple, his breath (the wind from his mouth) will settle the waters. The waters are not evil. But they do have to be calmed.

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